skype meeting Nr.1/#2489

• pixtur: Tue. 17.10.2006 / 17:00 GMZ (19:00 in Germany)
• tino: Tue. 17.10.2006 / 19:00 GMT (20:00 MET)
• binder: on evenings I`ll be late, after bringing my children to bed... perhaps 20:30 MET?

Suggested topicsπ

• pixtur: Feedback for release of v0.07rc
• pixtur: Discuss version numbering
• pixtur: Discuss schedule for next milestone

Questions:π

• pixtur: not sure, if we should use a voice conference or classic text based chat. Training some English would be cool, but...

Tasks we should discuss:π

• project-option(s) to finetune forms-fields and interface
• Add dropdown list with tags like (customer, employee, etc)
• "New Person" direct to Project
• in project list add deleted tab
• project options (additional page) for pms and admins
• export tables as XML or csv-list
• Monitor Task/Bugs / create person item table
• Efforts - admin has always start/end time, others have always duration dialog box (please consider add it to 0.07 milestone)

• new version numbers for streber road map

Tasks we should assign:π

• add time zone drop down list to person profil
• collapse milestones in milestone list (like releases) / dates are changing in a mysterious way

Chat log:π

• [20:12:34] * tom added Aqeel Zafar, Frank Rentmeister, lordle / Binder, Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr to this chat
• [20:15:36] tom says: I will go through the streber list and invite the other users...
• [20:16:38] tom says: ok... I guess we are complete.
• [20:17:37] tom says: Although we should not be too formal here, maybe we should just go through the list of tasks to discuss.
• [20:17:46] tom says: like http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=2489
• [20:18:08] Tino Beirau says: what about a protocoll or something like this?
• [20:18:31] Tino Beirau says: maybe we can use the chat history...
• [20:18:33] tom says: I though we just log the chat an post it a streber.
• [20:19:14] tom says: We can highlight the important stuff and add some formatting like headlines if topic changes...
• [20:19:20] Tino Beirau says: ahhh
• [20:19:28] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: yes, and delete some noise talk :)
• [20:19:36] tom says: so no dirty jokes ,-)
• [20:19:53] tom says: I will delete the jokes... (at least the bad ones)
• [20:19:58] Tino Beirau says: ;)

on Project options (project-option(s) to finetune forms-fields and interface)π

• [20:20:21] tom says: Ok... let's start with project options (http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=493)
• [20:20:51] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: I think, we should start to focus on 0.07 milestone first
• [20:21:09] tom says: The idea was to adjust the look of projects so they are not too complex. I often have projects that do not require Milestones, Efforts and Versions.
• [20:21:24] tom says: Hiding those features would make the interface much clearer for those clients.
• [20:21:41] tom says: What do you guys think about this?
• [20:22:07] tom says: radek: ok
• [20:22:21] Tino Beirau says: As an software developer, I guess.
• [20:22:42] tom says: Then let's start with v0.07.
• [20:22:54] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Good idea.
• [20:22:59] Tino Beirau says: But, like binder said in his comment, for a non software-project it might be confusing for the user
• [20:23:37] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom, lets finosh 493 and switch to 0.07
• [20:24:22] tom says: ok.
• [20:25:16] tom says: A formal suggestions: Maybe we should start each line with the person it's related to. So it will be easier to keep track of what is going on.
• [20:25:34] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Idea is good and I like it, but how abouuuu realistation
• [20:25:47] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: isn't to complicated
• [20:26:04] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: layout of project will change from project to project
• [20:26:35] tom says: radek: I thought about adding some if-statements to the View pages.
• [20:27:15] tom says: ... like if Page function "add Effort" is only displayed ...
• [20:27:16] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: and disabling functions at all too
• [20:27:24] tom says: ... if efforts are enabled.
• [20:28:15] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: tom: to which milestone it would be assigned?
• [20:28:20] tom says: Radek: I would mainly affect the "Pages" lines (Tasks / Mile stones etc) and the functions.
• [20:28:57] tom says: radek: I think it would be realistic to do it in v0.08
• [20:29:03] Tino Beirau says: Tom: What about a project-type - like a type you can create and choose the options (like use_timing; don't show...)
• [20:29:10] tom says: ... that would be in 1-2 Months...
• [20:29:40] Tino Beirau says: After defining this project type, you can adjust your project to this project type
• [20:29:52] tom says: Tino: This is a cool idea... But maybe a little as a next step ?
• [20:31:13] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tino: good idea - it gives few project types (small, middle, big) ;) instead oooof permutation of some options
• [20:31:13] Tino Beirau says: Tom: hmm, you're right, it would be a bit of work
• [20:31:19] tom says: Tino: We already have a lot of trouble with adjusted person profiles. What if the project type changes? We could add a js-function for options presets' though.
• [20:31:55] tom says: maybe we can combine both:
• [20:32:05] tom says: 1. adding and using the options
• [20:32:29] tom says: 2. (in a further milestone) add project types to adjust several options on the fly.
• [20:32:34] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: let's avoid change project type after establis it - we will die in cases...
• [20:33:28] Tino Beirau says: Radek: yes, permutations are very bad - we should it keep simple (even when we are standing at the beginning)
• [20:33:58] tom says: Radek: I think it might not be good to use the project type for any checks. I would only use them for initializing the options.
• [20:34:26] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom. Really better let we use KISS methodology and 2 is really cool enough
• [20:34:39] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: how to test all cases?
• [20:34:43] Tino Beirau says: Radek: I agree with you - after assigning a project tpye, it shouldn't be reassigned to another type
• [20:34:49] tom says: Radek, Tino: It might also help to have the options all shown. So you would not need to document which project type does what.
• [20:35:09] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: OK, good idea
• [20:35:51] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Question: What about private tasks? Is it viewable only for creator of task?
• [20:35:52] tom says: do you have some suggestions for options?
• [20:36:21] tom says: Radek: yes, private tasks are only visible for admins and creators.
• [20:36:56] Tino Beirau says: Tom, Radek: okay, so I think preset options on the fly with js is a goog idea as a start
• [20:37:37] Tino Beirau says: Tom, Radek: after choosen a project type from a dropdown, the form fields are shown or hidden from the form
• [20:37:44] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: private tasks - I'll check again - but private tasks are visible to project managers other than creator of task
• [20:38:31] Tino Beirau says: Tom: So I guess we have to include all fields in the form
• [20:39:01] tom says: radek: Please check... But let's finish 493 first.
• [20:39:18] Tino Beirau says: Tom, Radek: What do you think?
• [20:39:19] tom says: Tino: ???
• [20:40:02] Tino Beirau says: Tom: So I guess we have to include all fields in the form - this is a requirement to kick this stuff with js
• [20:40:14] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: sorry I had to break for a while
• [20:41:04] Tino Beirau says: Enjoy your meal ;)
• [20:42:18] tom says: I adjusted the description of http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=493
• [20:42:32] tom says: Do you think those options are ok?
• [20:43:46] Tino Beirau says: Tom: The easiest way is to set it with if-statements in the code (maybe as a start task) - maybe we can enhance...
• [20:43:55] Tino Beirau says: Tom: yes, this fits
• [20:45:03] Tino Beirau says: Tom: "only Project Mangers may approve/close tasks" - good point
• [20:45:36] tom says: Tino: ok, we should leave it like that...
• [20:45:47] Tino Beirau says: allright
• [20:46:02] tom says: ... Since I want it, I will implement it.
• [20:46:11] Tino Beirau says: good base for further discussion
• [20:47:16] Tino Beirau says: ... Since I want it, I will implement it. :) I have no problems witt that
• [20:47:25] Tino Beirau says: 8)
• [20:48:11] tom says: just a moment
• [20:49:11] Tino Beirau says: we should highlight http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=493 in http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=2489 as discussed or something like that
• [20:49:17] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: I'm back
• [20:50:08] Tino Beirau says: Hope the supper was good!
• [20:50:15] Tino Beirau says: ;)
• [20:50:58] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: not supper, but my son had to be served ;)
• [20:52:20] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: 493: presets - software project (with all stuff), organise project (without versions, milestones, etc) - those two presets are at the first thoughts
• [20:52:35] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: but we can add more later and think a little about it

on Cannot link to item #1492 of type 15π

• [20:57:47] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: nop, I was reading next topic on 2489 :)
• [20:58:10] Tino Beirau says: Me too (think)
• [20:58:12] tom says: Radek: Have a look at the task again. I added some options and would like to know, if you can think of some more.
• [20:59:03] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: 493?
• [20:59:15] Tino Beirau says: Radek: yes, 493
• [21:00:28] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: it looks ok
• [21:00:43] tom says: Radek, Tino: ok... then 2489
• [21:00:52] Tino Beirau says: allright
• [21:01:18] tom says: btw: did you know, that you can press ALT-S 2489 Enter?
• [21:01:43] tom says: Add dropdown list with tags like (customer, employee, etc)
• [21:02:17] tom says: I think we should skip this one, because it's mainly for burger and binder.
• [21:02:44] tom says: ... same for "New Person" direct to Project: "New Person" direct to Project
• [21:03:13] tom says: oh... wait a second...
• [21:03:29] tom says: "New Person" direct to Project is interessting!

• [21:03:34] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: 1424: personally I don't like so many tabs in people
• [21:04:21] tom says: Radek: Those tabs shouldl become "Filter Presets" like in tasks "all, open, my open, etc"
• [21:04:36] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: some of the people are listed in may tabs..
• [21:04:41] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: ok, it sounds good
• [21:05:06] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: but remeber to ad "all" ;)
• [21:05:05] Tino Beirau says: Radek: I yes (y)
• [21:05:16] tom says: Radek: I know that listing the people in several tabs is confusing... But I don't know how to solve this.

on "New Person" direct to Projectπ

• [21:05:55] Tino Beirau says: what Item do we discuss? "New Person" direct to Project
• [21:06:18] tom says: tino: let's close Add dropdown list with tags like (customer, employee, etc)
• [21:06:26] tom says: ...first...
• [21:06:39] tom says: I still have one question about it.
• [21:06:57] Tino Beirau says: Tom, Radek: create a new person from a project would be much better, wouldn't it?
• [21:07:08] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: maybe let we use just plain table wit sort columns listed all persons gropued by category?
• [21:07:48] tom says: ... if "With Account", "Other Persons", a.s.o. become "filter presets" which pages stay under "People"? Just "Persons" and "Deleted"?
• [21:07:49] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: I have 1-2 projects with 20-30 people but... it should be visible one one screen :)
• [21:08:06] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: should and could
• [21:09:00] Tino Beirau says: Tom, Radek: why not?
• [21:09:41] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: you can control all persons to see rigggghts, etc
• [21:09:54] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: sort order person type, name
• [21:10:50] tom says: Radek: I think the best way would be listing people list like Tasks: With different filters (all, etc.) and different list styles.
• [21:11:07] tom says: ... So everybody can adjust it's favorit view.
• [21:12:05] Tino Beirau says: Tom: This sounds very good - also for companies
• [21:12:13] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom. Yes, but people view is almost not used, don'twe think too much to it?
• [21:12:43] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tino, Tom: companies is the same cas :)
• [21:13:14] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: sorry "on i?" instead "to it?"t
• [21:06:15] Aqeel Zafar says: hi everyone
• [21:13:33] tom says: All: I think all list views should work like taskView. This would solve most of the issues.
• [21:11:30] Aqeel Zafar says: I am (still) having problem with my connection, going to reconnect and see if my lag goes away
• [21:13:41] tom says: hi barlas.
• [21:13:47] Tino Beirau says: hey Barlas
• [21:14:27] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Hey Barla
• [21:14:38] Tino Beirau says: yes, you wnet in and out a few minutes before... ;)
• [21:14:50] Aqeel Zafar says: ah, it's good now, thanks
• [21:14:51] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: ok, unity is an arque :)
• [21:15:36] Tino Beirau says: Tom: We should go on to task "New Person" direct to Project
• [21:15:49] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Barlas, I had to change 5 batteries in my keboard and mouse during this chat, you are not alone with tecnical prblems ;)
• [21:16:09] Aqeel Zafar says: Radoslaw, glad to know that :P
• [21:16:29] Tino Beirau says: Radek: You're kiddin??? (party)
• [21:17:09] tom says: All: Ok lets continue with "New Person" direct to Project
• [21:17:33] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tino: nnno! Mouse died, and Keyboard start to repeat keystrokes :)
• [21:18:21] Tino Beirau says: Radek: this is so funny - sorry about that
• [21:18:24] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: 662: ok, but minor and not >must be< option
• [21:18:26] tom says: All: I think this features is important, because adding new developers to streber is a little bit... erm... awkward.
• [21:18:41] Tino Beirau says: all: create a new person from a project would be much better, wouldn't it?
• [21:19:05] Tino Beirau says: all_ isn't there a task for it? searching...
• [21:19:25] Aqeel Zafar says: All: it would be good to have 662 implementes, would make it easy to add new members
• [21:20:43] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: all: ok. let's implement it. is something more about 662
• [21:20:52] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: ?
• [21:21:34] Tino Beirau says: All: From my point of view, it's faster and easier to add new user direct from a project...?
• [21:21:37] tom says: tino: I think you are right... There was another task about this topic suggested by burger... But I cannot find it right now.
• [21:21:47] Tino Beirau says: Me too
• [21:22:39] Aqeel Zafar says: Tino, I guess so, but let's say I am adding three users and want to add them to different projects?
• [21:23:35] Tino Beirau says: barlas: hmm, this sound logical...yes, maybe both
• [21:24:00] Aqeel Zafar says: all: IMHO having both options would be the best choice
• [21:24:32] tom says: All: I think we should implement both:
• [. add drop down list(s) to personEdit
• [. add a form at the bottom of addPersonToProject list to create new persons on the fly...
• [21:24:44] tom says: ... unity.
• [21:24:54] Tino Beirau says: all: unity
• [21:25:21] tom says: Ok. I will write some description to this task. Let's go to the next task:in project list add deleted tab
• [21:25:36] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: aTom: 1 - drop down with projects to whic new person assign?
• [21:26:07] tom says: All: ok... first finish "New Person" direct to Project...
• [21:26:13] tom says: Radek:...
• [21:26:24] Tino Beirau says: Radek: yes, I think Tom mean this
• [21:26:54] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: sorry for my keyboard mistakes, on chats myy fingers are to fast
• [21:27:00] tom says: I will do a quick photoshop sketch... I will take just a second..
• [21:30:14] tom says: ...sorry... Just saw that this would be a little bit more complex, because we also should split the edit form for persons into several tabs like http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=fileView&file=1727
• [21:30:51] tom says: ... I am not sure, how to structure the person's data into the tabs. And I do not know where to place the "add to project" option right now...
• [21:31:01] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom, all: I see we disscuss mailny features to 0.08 milestone, but in my opinion, we should focus, what is important to next milestone 0.07
• [21:31:24] tom says: Radek: yes, you are perfectly right.
• [21:31:40] tom says: All: should we go to v0.07?
• [21:32:55] Tino Beirau says: All: yes
• [21:33:48] tom says: OK...
• [21:33:59] tom says: Then start with http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=2342
• [o icon -> themes/clean/icons/desc.gif
• [21:35:23] tom says: I think this is a bogus feature request...
• [21:35:28] tom says: should we close it?
• [21:35:35] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: What is a pain for current streber for me:

On row striping being too slowπ

• [. eforts not working prooperly: 1717, 2514, 1499
• [. lists - cpu eating odd/even row coloring - history is a time killer - history shoul
• [21:36:00] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: 3. history - with filters - it's very often use feature
• [21:36:16] Tino Beirau says: Tom: let's remove it to another version
• [21:36:43] Tino Beirau says: Radek: odd/even row coloring is disabled by default...
• [21:37:03] tom says: Tino, Radek: Coloring is a good point...
• [21:37:32] Tino Beirau says: Tom: let's remove it to another milestone
• [21:37:33] tom says: ... I reimplemented some of tinos functions and I like the jquery usage alot... But it costs CPU usage...
• [21:37:40] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tino: not in clea theme and... I love odd/even row coloring
• [21:38:34] Tino Beirau says: Radek: Oh, I didn't check this - but I know that odd/even handling with jquery is disabled by the way
• [21:39:07] tom says: Tino, Radek: The odd/even coloring already works in the current revision
• [21:39:21] Tino Beirau says: Tom: I love this jquery stuff but sometimes it lacks some time
• [21:39:38] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: on slow computers it's really time consuming - we use old comps on testing low end minimal requirements or virtual pc with streber as bugtrack and... it's to slow
• [21:39:58] tom says: Tino: I noticed there was a bug, disabling the row striping. But if fixed it yesterday.
• [21:40:05] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: I see it back in rev 141 :)
• [21:40:36] Tino Beirau says: Ah okay - I didn't check the last revision...
• [21:40:54] tom says: Radek: Hmmm. I am unsure..
• [21:40:57] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Question: row coloring - must it be in js? it's for colum sorting on the fly with ajax interface?
• [21:41:40] tom says: Radek: pro js:
• [. shorter HTML code (less download time)
• [21:41:41] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: As I remeber in older projects it was on the server side
• [21:42:13] tom says: Radek: it could be make on the server side. But the striping is not the only thing the consumes CPU time after page loading...
• [21:42:22] Tino Beirau says: All: Yes, in former versions it was serverside
• [21:43:08] tom says: ... I thing the striping is quiet fast. What's expensive is assigning the handlers for row selection...
• [21:43:12] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: All: after this I see really big slow down - even on fast machines (64 bit 3 GHz)....
• [21:43:24] tom says: ... and those can NOT be done server sided.
• [21:44:09] Tino Beirau says: Tom: Did you played a bit with that?
• [21:45:37] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: did you check, what is so cpu consuming? any js profiler?
• [21:45:48] Tino Beirau says: All: The less complex our html code is the more faster Jquery
• [21:46:28] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: All: isn't it the more items, then slower all?
• [21:46:47] Tino Beirau says: All: I think the major lack of time is, like Thomas mentioned it before, assigning the handlers
• [21:46:49] tom says: All: I was really depressed about the performance lack after using jquery. Really! I inversted about two days to analyse what costs performance...
• [21:47:14] tom says: Radek: Yes. It depends on the number of list items...
• [21:47:33] Tino Beirau says: All: Maybe http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=1725
• [21:47:40] tom says: ... I created a dummy function to create some hundret dummy tasks for a project. So I can play around...
• [21:49:26] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: I think that it's main problems with interpreted languages like js - speed slows down very much, when you have a lot of items
• [21:49:27] Tino Beirau says: All: We must invest some time into this one!
• [21:50:11] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: all: maybe we could add drop down with how many rows are displayed on current screen?
• [21:50:22] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: it could help with performance
• [21:50:55] Tino Beirau says: Radek: Maybe, but it don't solve the problem at all... (sweat)
• [21:51:15] Tino Beirau says: Radek: but this would be a good option
• [21:52:44] tom says: All: I personally do not want to go away from jquery because it provides a tremendous amount of potential. Currently we only have the first steps. But stuff like jTip will really give streber a hype...
• [21:53:14] tom says: ... so the only chance with have is to further optimize the html size and reduce the number of displayed lines...
• [21:53:17] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: I understand js interface pros
• [21:53:37] Tino Beirau says: Tom: Analyze the speed lack...http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=2543
• [21:54:50] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: All: please see this link: http://osflash.org/flashjs
• [21:55:06] tom says: ok...
• [21:55:18] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: It's java script based connection to flash and ajax like libraries
• [21:55:51] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: all flash programming could be done in plain js - flash 8 is compiled and really fast
• [21:56:16] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: we have a lot of very good flash controls and objects
• [21:56:32] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: sorted table view - no porblem
• [21:57:07] tom says: All: I think we a drifting a little bit right now...
• [21:57:06] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: maybe ajax interface could be in js with ALL power of flash
• [21:57:37] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: ait's open source and nobody needs to have even flash to compile anything
• [21:57:43] Tino Beirau says: :(
• [21:57:53] tom says: Radek: I have to check this... But currently I am a little bit reluctant...
• [21:58:08] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: yes, but it could be solving speed problems with js
• [21:58:45] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: all: ok. let's back to the main topic :)
• [21:59:16] tom says: Radek: I will invest some time into the performance problems. And I definetly will check the SFlash...
• [21:59:34] Tino Beirau says: All: Let's go ahead with eforts not working prooperly: 1717, 2514, 1499
• [21:59:41] tom says: All: Do you think that the v0.07 could be released with the slow JS-interface?
• [21:59:53] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: yes
• [22:00:12] tom says: Tino: ??
• [22:00:17] Tino Beirau says: Tom: Definitaly yes

On Efforts and time zones not working properlyπ

• [22:00:17] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: all: but iwith working properly efforts
• [22:00:31] tom says: Radek: Ok... Then to efforts...
• [22:00:55] tom says: I should explain a little bit...
• [22:01:40] tom says: The current problem has several reasons:
• [. autodetection of time zone
• [. Bug implemenation of effortEdit/Submit
• [22:02:28] tom says: I think I already fixed some of the second. But for a good solution we would need to add time zone drop down list to person profil
• [22:02:53] tom says: Maybe someone of you guys could implement this one... It's not difficult.
• [22:02:58] Tino Beirau says: Tom: yes, this is a key feature on this topic
• [22:04:39] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: 1659 - why? It could b done without this drop down.
• [22:05:29] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: streber installation have to have in config time zone shift (for yo be shure if we use server in other country)
• [22:05:46] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: and client shows his local time zone time
• [22:06:05] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: but stores in databaze in streber time
• [22:07:51] Tino Beirau says: Radek: This sound great..."Your current server time is.... Does it fit your local time?....My time offset is -2 -1 0 1 2 ...hours"
• [22:08:47] tom says: How do you can the local time zone of the client?
• [22:08:54] tom says: Radek: This is tricky.
• [22:09:21] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: See time offset screen in 2514
• [22:09:55] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: client side tie is correct
• [22:10:03] tom says: almost...
• [22:10:40] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: but streber uses date and/or original db-string which is sometimes not proper
• [22:10:46] tom says: The problem is, that it can be easily off about 1 minute or so because it is only get ONCE at login (which is seldom with cookies).
• [22:11:09] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: if we add option to add to this settings offset, then we ssolve this problem
• [22:12:04] tom says: this leeds to the problem binder describes at times and dates in streber
• [22:13:09] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: on systemInfo page this time is viewed properly
• [22:13:23] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: and we should call this functions
• [22:13:46] tom says: Radek: Do I get you right, in that you want to have a new config-options like "store_times_as_GMT" to disable the time zone stuff completely?
• [22:14:21] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: and client time should be calculated as hours offset - clock on the server should have priority than client clock
• [22:15:35] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: no rather config option like "timezone_offset"
• [22:16:09] tom says: Radek: Or like "servers_timezone_offset"?
• [22:16:09] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: do we use GMT to store time and dates?
• [22:16:22] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tim: much better :)
• [22:16:22] tom says: Radek: yes
• [22:16:48] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: "server_timezone_offset"
• [22:17:18] tom says: Radek: I will create a ticket for this...
• [22:18:22] tom says: Radek: or "server_timezone"
• [22:18:33] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: all: 1659 - is it necessary to implement if we solve problem in a way described in our chatr?
• [22:18:48] tom says: ... a time zone is already an offset to GMT
• [22:21:02] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: but don't rely on php function because somebody could use server in usa or tobago :)
• [22:21:29] tom says: Radek: Yes. I know...
• [22:21:42] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: offset is easier - you add just integer, not a symbolic timezone string
• [22:22:11] tom says: Radek: I created http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=2546. Can you add a description what excactly is been done with this offset?
• [22:22:24] Tino Beirau says: Radek: I think YES, it's or how you will calculate the client time?
• [22:23:01] tom says: Radek: You are right. timezone suggests a string... Let's call it "server_time_offset" and make it seconds.
• [22:23:32] Tino Beirau says: Tom: Why?
• [22:23:56] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: moment. I use server with timezone Europe/Warsaw, but server time in streber is 2 hours shiftewd
• [22:24:09] Tino Beirau says: Tom: The only difference between the timezones is the different number of hours
• [22:24:11] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: this should be corrected - this detection is bad
• [22:24:25] tom says: Tino: Because in class_person it's also called time_offset..
• [22:25:15] tom says: Radek: That's probably because of summer time?
• [22:25:24] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: 2 hours?
• [22:25:36] Tino Beirau says: Tom: hmm - I thought calculating the date is getting server time plus timezone-offset
• [22:26:05] tom says: I don't know.. I just ask JS to give me the local time. Than I ask PHP to give me the server time. Then I caclulate the offset.
• [22:27:30] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tino: if server time is correct, I see client time correct (but with clock on my computer, not server). We know two times - server and client. We could assume, that difference in clocks between server and client is less, than 30 minutes and on that assumption detect client timezone offset in hours
• [22:27:33] Tino Beirau says: Tom: What about getting client time from difference of server time plus offset (which every person can edit in the profile add time zone drop down list to person profil
• [22:28:35] Tino Beirau says: Tom: I don't like getting client time with js... (wait)
• [22:29:45] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: all: the problem lies in detecting properly server time
• [22:29:51] tom says: Tino: I would be very glad of having another way to get it (automatically9
• [22:30:30] tom says: tino: getting the client time...
• [22:30:54] Tino Beirau says: Tom: Okay - wait...
• [22:31:34] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: all: client time detection could be made with js and dynamically detection of timezone offset as above, or personal shift as in 1659 or ? maybe php has some functions to detect client time (?)
• [22:32:13] tom says: Radek: I looked about two weeks for this function. Without result..
• [22:32:58] Tino Beirau says: Tom: What about that: date_default_timezone_get / date_default_timezone_set
• [22:33:05] Tino Beirau says: http://de.php.net/manual/en/function.date-default-timezone-get.php
• [22:33:40] tom says: Tino: This is for the server only...
• [22:33:52] tom says: ... And I do not trust the php functions.
• [22:34:04] Tino Beirau says: Tom: :D
• [22:34:23] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: all: lets vote - 1659 a'like client time "detection" or dynamically. Me... all have pros and cons, you decide :--)
• [22:35:05] tom says: All: I would sumarize this topic as following...
• [22:36:32] tom says: 1. I will add the new server_time_offset so each admin can adjust the timezone of his server
• [. I will add the "timezone" drop down list in person's profile which is been set to "Autodetect" by default.
• [. I will round the autodetected time_offset to full hours...
• [- [ould this be sufficient?
• [22:37:07] Tino Beirau says: this sounds good, but only one question!
• [22:37:20] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: perfect, more than sufficient ;)
• [22:38:11] tom says: Tino: go ahead.
• [22:38:48] Tino Beirau says: Tom: What, when server-time is 2pm (14 uhr) and my local time on pc (client time) is 4:35pm (16:35 Uhr)
• [22:39:07] Tino Beirau says: Tom: and I'm in the same timezone!
• [22:40:04] Tino Beirau says: Tom: When i made changes right now, what time will be saved to db? Hopefully not 4:35pm
• [22:40:42] tom says: Tino: In autodetection...
• [6:35 - 14:00 = 2:35 = rounded to 3hours difference
• [22:40:44] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tino: it should be server time
• [22:41:02] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: and we should display server timenot client time
• [22:41:30] tom says: Tino: in the db it will be stored as xxxx-xx-xx 14:00:00
• [22:41:37] tom says: no...
• [22:43:37] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: We could add one more config option - server_clock_shift - sometimes servers clocks are not perfect, and in that issues we could correct time :)
• [22:43:42] tom says: the time of you change is always stored in server time... No need for converting something here... But it will be displayed as 14:00 + 3:00h
• [22:44:15] Tino Beirau says: All: In my opinion the server-time should be correct - if not set an clock_shift
• [22:44:49] tom says: Radek: 'server_time_offset' can already be used for this... Remember: it is in seconds.
• [22:44:50] Tino Beirau says: All: So the admin should adjust the server time correctly...
• [22:45:27] tom says: Tino: Live is complicated. Maybe a streber admin is it admin of the server...
• [22:45:36] Tino Beirau says: And me, as a user, am recommended to adjust my time on pc exactly too.
• [22:46:04] tom says: Tino: servers are very frequently running weird times...
• [22:46:24] tom says: All: do you we want to continue with another topic?
• [22:47:06] Tino Beirau says: All: No - my time is over now! (mm)
• [22:47:12] tom says: ah...
• [22:47:26] tom says: I am also pretty tired...
• [22:47:29] Tino Beirau says: I'm too tired to go ahead ... :(
• [22:47:51] Tino Beirau says: What about Thursday evening - we have some tasks on our list - havent we?
• [22:49:29] tom says: I am affraid I can to this meetings all too frequently... Once a week is the most I can attent.
• [22:51:43] tom says: Radek: what's your opinion on this?
• [22:52:07] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Sorry left chat for a while
• [22:52:26] Tino Beirau says: I suggest http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=1717 to milestone 0.08
• [22:52:45] Tino Beirau says: What do you think Tom?
• [22:53:27] Tino Beirau says: So good evening to you all!
• [22:53:34] tom says: Tino: good bye...
• [22:53:35] tom says: Thank you
• [22:53:42] Tino Beirau says: Bye ;)
• [22:53:55] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tino: I insist to add it to 0.07
• [22:54:19] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tino: good bye have a nice night ;)
• [22:54:32] tom says: Radek: I will spent some time with the efforts. Maybe I can fix it.
• [22:54:56] tom says: Radek: could it be, that in Efforts - admin has always start/end time, others have always duration dialog box there are actually two bugs?
• [22:55:31] tom says: The task title suggest another topic, than the comments.
• [22:56:11] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: isn't this fixed yet?
• [- [t present our streber uses the persons settings, if person is newly assigned to a project.
• [- [owever, if the person was added in a version (i think prior to 0.064?) this wasn't the case.
• [22:56:23] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: it was binder reply
• [22:56:29] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: and my:
• [22:56:30] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Reply to Antwort auf Right, this has to be fixed in v0.07
• [es. I check on projects and persons, which have been assigned prior to 0.064 version...... But as I said, the only account person which has start/end time is admin. I'll check, if this person was assigned in one of the later versions.
• [22:57:34] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: I'll check if reassign person to project will help
• [22:57:48] tom says: wait...
• [22:58:09] tom says: What does "Edit Team member" say?
• [22:58:23] tom says: Right Click in the Team Member list?
• [22:59:44] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: sorry, where is "Edit Team member"?
• [23:00:20] tom says: in projView -> "Team Member" select a Team member and use the edit icon below the table.
• [23:01:48] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Error 20061017210037 NOTICE: pagesprojectperson.inc.php : 86 Undefined variable: count
• [rror 20061017210037 index.php : 339 -> PageHandler::show("projectPersonEdit")
• [rror 20061017210037
• [rror 20061017210037 Variables in show():
• [rror 20061017210037 pp = Object id Cannot link to item #245 of type 15
• [rror 20061017210037 PH = Object id Max SQL-connections
• [rror 20061017210037 id = 100
• [rror 20061017210037 project = Object id drag & drop of tasks with javascript 2
• [rror 20061017210037 person = Object id remove FolderList (after drag & drop support)
• [rror 20061017210037 page = Object id Cannot link to item #246 of type 15
• [rror 20061017210037 form = Object id edit history for all items (tasks, texts, etc.)
• [rror 20061017210037 g_theme_names = Array
• [rror 20061017210037 g_user_profile_names = Array
• [rror 20061017210037 g_user_profiles = Array
• [rror 20061017210037 profile_num = NULL
• [rror 20061017210037 reset = NULL
• [rror 20061017210037 number = 9
• [rror 20061017210037 i = NULL
• [rror 20061017210037 v0.07rc1, projectPersonEdit, from 83.16.198.98, uri:/index.php
• [rror 20061017210037
• [23:02:38] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: bingo: Loge effort as: is Duration
• [23:02:51] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: but in my profile is Start/end time
• [23:04:08] tom says: ups.
• [23:04:26] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: it works! ok binder was right - it's already (almost - except error above) fixed
• [23:06:23] tom says: ok... just fixed the count bug..
• [23:06:35] tom says: I did some test on the jquery speed:
• [23:06:41] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: so if person was assigned to project before this fix, or when was assigned to project with duration in his profile, then in project is stored for this person duration, right?
• [23:07:29] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: and profile is not used - it's just template when assigning person to new project?
• [23:07:46] tom says: About 400 tasks with my laptop (1.2 Pentium M):
• [equest server: 4-6 seconds
• [oading page: 2-3 seconds
• [triping: 0.5 - 1.5 seonds
• [ll other event handlers: less than 0.5 seconds
• [23:08:12] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: so in one project person could have duration, and in other start/end time
• [23:08:21] tom says: Radek: Right.
• [23:08:27] tom says: That was the plan.
• [23:08:33] tom says: Maybe a little bit complicated.
• [23:09:04] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: it's good but complicated, we should add docs for it
• [23:09:36] tom says: Defininately... We really need docs but my English it too bad (good excuse, isn't it?)
• [23:10:51] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom, i think, that always new effort should have option if we use duration, or start/end time (by default initialised as current user choice)
• [23:11:27] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: :) and add too less time
• [23:12:24] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: effort in edit for should have possibility to change from duration, to start/end time and vice versa
• [23:12:51] tom says: Radek: You are right about the choice while adding new efforts. I thought there are already a ticket on this one.
• [23:13:09] tom says: I will create a mockup on booking/editing efforts.
• [23:13:38] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom good, but ths could go to 0.08 milestone
• [23:14:23] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: so 1717 could be closed but with info added, how to use it
• [23:17:07] tom says: http://streber.pixtur.de/index.php?go=taskView&tsk=2547
• [23:17:26] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: so we have 1499 and 1659 to fix efforts
• [23:18:38] tom says: and Add 'server_time_offset' config setting
• [23:19:28] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: ues - I asigned it to 0...07
• [23:19:58] tom says: ok.
• [23:20:48] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: and 2514
• [23:23:17] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Tom: I think some even quick and dirty solution for history filters should be added to 0.07
• [23:23:33] tom says: radek: with times and dates in streber you mean rounding server offset to hours?
• [23:23:59] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: today, yesterday, last week, last month or just show 20, 50, 100, all records
• [23:24:40] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: yes, in dynamic clinet timezone detection
• [23:25:24] Binder Thomas says: sorry to interrupt, please delete "lordle" and put instead "the,real,lordle". someone was faster than me on skype. everywhere else I'm lordle, that's why...
• [23:25:32] tom says: Radek: I know that history is a pain in the ass, but I want to leave it to 0.08.
• [23:25:54] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: Binder - who's late? who's late? ;)!
• [23:26:06] Binder Thomas says: who is "frentmeister", by the way?
• [23:26:53] tom says: Binder: It's Frank. He was really active some months ago.
• [23:27:17] Binder Thomas says: ok. just for linking. thanks.
• [23:27:58] tom says: All: I am getting tired now.
• [23:28:21] tom says: I will work some minutes on the effort stuff.
• [23:28:27] Radoslaw Sliwinski / madlyr says: All: me too :)
• [23:28:37] tom says: should I upload the chat log to streber.pixtur.de?
• [23:29:01] Binder Thomas says: yes, would be nice! I got just the last few words! ;)